Mark Johnson, or, as he is known by most students, Kirkbride Jesus, is an Evangelist preacher who stands outside Kirkbride Hall or more recently, Caesar Rodney Dining Hall at the University of Delaware, proclaiming that unless they repent, our students are all going to Hell. To some, he is an infuriating daily presence who invokes a constant internal struggle about whether they should fight back, yet to others, he is an easily ignored mild disturbance that they just tune out. Seeing as he is one of the most obvious and apparent signs of religion on this campus that all students regularly interact with, he has greatly influenced how we perceive religion at UD. He is known for his aggressive promotion of his beliefs, controversial posters and signs, and for the plethora of jokes about him made on Yik Yak, The Black Sheep, and BuzzFeed by UD students.
For most of us, he’s become a part of everyday life. You wake up, eat breakfast at Rodney, go to English class in Memorial, sleep through Math in Gore, get told you’re going to Hell, eat lunch at Trabant, drudge through Chemistry, listen to who specifically God hates just for good measure, and then head back to your dorm. As much as he is apart of campus life now, Kirkbride Jesus has had a huge impact on the religious culture at UD. The first part of this three part series examines what nonreligious students really think about his words, tactics, and how he has changed the way that people view religion on campus.
Alex Sallade: Freshman, Music Ed/Music Theory Major
Do you consider yourself religious in any capacity?
I’m agnostic but I support religion.
Describe any experiences you may have had with Kirkbride Jesus:
I walked by twice a week last semester, listening briefly and noticing his signs. He’s always yelling things that annoy me and my friends. I know specifically one of my friends, who is gay, took his infamous “Are you going to Heaven or Hell?” Quiz where he asks students lifestyle questions and normally concludes that they are going to Hell and only about two questions in, he was told he would burn in Hell unless he repented soon.
How does what he says make you feel?
He’s really annoying, and he gives a bad image to Christians everywhere cause he’s such an extremist and he acts like an a***hole, I think he drives more people away from religion than to it because he’s out every day making a fool of himself and yelling at people.
Do you believe in evangelization? Does it work? Should people do it?
It can work, but he uses fear primarily and it’s not effective at all and they view him as an idiot and Christianity as harsh and unfavorable.
Does any one incident stand out in your mind?
His abortion posters were particularly disturbing and I respect his views on that but I don’t think he should shove it on people, especially not college kids just trying to go about their day.
Have you ever confronted him? Would you?
No. I have considered it, but I don’t put up with idiots because it’s a waste of my time and he’s not going to change.
Do you ever agree with him about anything?
No, not at all, he just yells, everything that comes out of his mouth just seems pointless.
Has he changed how you view religion or religious people on campus?
No, because I can see past his idiocy and one person cannot represent an entire religion.
Bill Manning: Freshman, Chemical Engineering Major
Do you consider yourself religious in any capacity?
Nope.
Any other things you want to identify about yourself?
I was raised Catholic and then I was Methodist for a period of time, but I am no longer religious.
Describe your experience with Kirkbride Jesus.
So I was having a debate with myself one day about what Kirkbride Jesus’s name is. I eventually settled that it would be one of the four names of the Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. I thought his name was probably Mark, but I realized there was only one way to end this debate with myself, so I went up and said to him, “Hey, do you have a minute? I’d like to ask you a question.” He said “Yeah, sure.” So then I said, “What’s your name?” and he says “What?” I say, “What’s your name?” He said, “It’s Mark,” so I put out my hand and I said, “Hi Mark, I’m Bill Manning.” I shook his hand and then I said, “Well, that’s all I really needed, so I’m gonna go.” He said, “Well, could I talk to you about some stuff?” and I said, “Yeah, sure, that’s fair.” Then we had a very pleasant conversation about what my religious views are and what my moral beliefs are. We had a big discussion about where I had founded my moral beliefs. His argument makes logical sense, which was that all the inherent moral beliefs that I would say I have really originate from the fact that at one point in time I was raised religious. So he said that the reason you have these moral beliefs are because you were religious, therefore, you learned them from the Bible. I agreed to a certain extent, but asserted that there were some beliefs that weren’t inherently from the Bible. Eventually we discussed my major and chemical engineering and I want to minor in biochemical engineering and so he asked me how I think all of those little biological things happened. So I said that I believe they happened through evolution and we can prove that carbohydrates and lipids can form in natural conditions. So he asked what I believe came before that so I said, “Well, the Big Bang.” And he said, “Well, how do you think that got there?” I said, “Well, realistically, I can’t really give you an answer, because science isn’t really there yet, except we know it happened at X time and that was how we know it happened.” And he said that he thought that God did it and that we are made in his image and all that. I said that I could respect that, but I just didn’t agree with it. He asked me why and so I said that to put it simply, my idea of religion is that you should just go with whatever makes it easiest for you to sleep at night. “Personally,” I said “I’ve seen some dark things both personally in my family and in my neighborhood and also on the news, therefore it made it easiest for me to think that life is chaos, no one has got a plan, and we’re all just kind of winging it. And that’s what makes it easiest for me to sleep at night.” He said that he felt what was causing all of this was a God who was angry at the things we do. He brought up good points, though, he didn’t act like he was flawless. He asked me, “Have you ever lied before?” so I said, “Yeah,” and he said, “Well, of course I have, we were all kids, we’ve all done it, we all didn’t want to get in trouble.” But he said that the difference between a non-religious person and a religious person is that if you’re religious, you’re supposed to repent for that and then you’re getting God’s forgiveness, because you’ve repented for your wrongdoings. I said true, but the other thing is you could was just not lie. Being non-religious doesn’t just mean that I’m going to start lying all the time because “there are no consequences to me being an a**.” And so we just had a lot of philosophical debates and stuff, it was nice and he was very courteous.
How does what he says make you feel?
I think that the guy we all call Kirkbride Jesus, Mark, who was there for first semester is very calm. There was the incident with the fetus image which was gross and disgusting and that definitely overstepped a line and he was reprimanded for it but nothing he ever said ever made me be like “Oh I feel bad.” I do think whoever the new guy is who is out there preaching while Mark holds the sign is very different and is definitely a lot meaner as shown in some of the things he says like where he points at people and says “You are damned to hell.” I don’t think we necessarily need that. That’s just unneeded hostility. But I still say hi to Mark every time I walk by!
Does his presence make you see religious people differently and/or further swayed you to not participate?
I wouldn’t say so, at this point I’ve already had my battle about whether to be religious or not and sort of came to my conclusion. His comments about where my morals came from gave me something to think about, but nothing he’s said to me made me decide to re-evaluate myself.
Jack Goodridge: Freshman, International Relations Major
Do you consider yourself religious in any capacity?
No, I’m an atheist.
Describe your experience with Kirkbride Jesus.
I’ve never talked to him but I’ve heard reactions and listened to him speak before.
How does what he says make you feel?
A little bit confused because I’m not religious, but I’ve had religious friends and family and what I’ve learned from them says that you don’t have to be a Christian to have good morals and values and you should focus instead on being a good person.
Do you believe in evangelization? Does it work? Should people do it?
It does work with certain types of people, but the majority, no.
Does any one incident stand out in your mind?
He had a sign up once that really made me think, it said: “Atheism is a temporary condition.”
I didn’t like how that was phrased, it made it sound like atheism is a disease and that my current lifestyle is unhealthy.
Have you ever confronted him? Would you?
No and no.
Do you agree with him about anything?
No.
Allison Conroy: Freshman, English Education Major
Do you consider yourself religious in any capacity?
I don’t consider myself religious, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say I’m an atheist.
Describe your experience with Kirkbride Jesus.
I have frequently seen him in front of the dining hall and Kirkbride Hall, as his name suggests.
I’ve seen him interact with a plethora of students, some of which seem mildly interested, some of which seem wildly offended.
How does what he says make you feel?
Frustrated because I don’t believe regardless of religion or not that you should condemn people for views that aren’t your own or that preaching in that public of a setting is conducive to getting people to understand other people’s point of view.
Do you believe in evangelization? Does it work? Should people do it?
I'm sure there have been students who have listened to him and at this age, when you’re on your own you’re impressionable and he preys on that, but normally that kind of extremism is not effective for gaining converts.
Does any one incident stand out in your mind?
He had those very graphic abortion posters once, I found them extremely unsettling and inaccurate. They certainly did not sit well.
Have you ever confronted him? Would you?
No.
Do you agree with him about anything?
Oh, no! I’ve definitely never thought that anything he said was correct.
Has he changed how you view religion or religious people on campus?
No, because I think in any sect of religion there are extremists that hurt everyone and then there are perfectly good people and it is unfair to judge the good ones based on their extremist counterparts just because they may be louder.
Ryan Charles: Grad Student, School Psychology Major
Do you consider yourself religious in any capacity?
I'm spiritual, but not religious. I grew up in a vaguely Christian household though. I attended a Presbyterian church regularly for about a year while singing in the choir and volunteering. (Last year.)
Describe your experience with Kirkbride Jesus.
I've sat for his talks on occasion. I had the pleasure of seeing him out on Main Street on a Saturday night. He was having a real tender moment with a drunk guy. The kid was telling KBJ all about his wild college lifestyle and his regrets. Feeling like he could do better. KBJ told him, "Hey man, it's not my place to judge you... that's God's job and it sounds like you're going to hell. Not my choice, His." I've seen him get in students' faces and get pretty heated. He's calmed down the last couple years since he's been moved outside of the brick wall outside of Kirkbride.
How does what he says make you feel?
Nothing he's said around me or to me in passing has particularly offended me. I have seen people get pretty upset, though, and that's my issue with him. I'm pretty resilient, but not everyone on this campus can handle someone shouting about how awful they are.
Can you elaborate on that? Has any one friend been super effected by him? Also, can you elaborate on how he "used to be?" The yelling in people's faces and getting heated thing?
Luckily the friends of mine that have had interactions with him have been peacefully confrontational and have handled his rhetoric with poise.
During my first few years here (2010-2012), he was allowed to set up within the walls of the quad. He had a full audio system so that he could be heard from Kirkbride to Purnell, even during noisier moments (class changes, traffic, etc.). He had pamphlets and full poster presentations, crosses, and this cute red wagon to hold the main audio equipment.
I think my main hang up with KBJ as a person is that through my very short time spent in church, my main takeaway was Jesus preached unconditional love. Christ, to my limited knowledge, never promised Hellfire. It's hard to take him seriously as a Christian when he holds himself to a higher authority than the man he worships in regards to his ability to make judgements on our lives and decisions.
Sadly I cannot recall any specific examples of what was said during a heated confrontation. He used to refer to the student body as "the mass of sinners and whores" relatively frequently, which would usually get one or two people a bit riled up.
In a past interview KBJ said that he calls what he does "evangelizing" which essentially means you spread the word of God in an attempt to convert people to your religion
1. Do you believe that evangelization ever works? 2. Do you believe it has ever worked for KBJ?
1. I think evangelization can certainly work when done well. Much like what we've seen in our current presidential race, there are different ways to appeal to a target audience. KBJ seems to go with the fear-mongering approach, which I doubt he finds much success with on a relatively liberal, open-minded campus. So to answer number 2, I think it's probably worked in a very limited capacity but his ratio for "people saved" to "people he's personally turned off from Christianity" is probably not in his favor.
Does any one incident stand out in your mind?
I can't speak to any single event being particularly atrocious. The abortion presentations he stages and the ones staged on the north green are rather horrid, though, in that they are picking an audience of people who are probably intelligent enough to practice safe sex anyway, leaving a small group of women who likely had to abort for health reasons after carrying through most of a wanted pregnancy. To shame a woman who had to make that choice is unspeakable.
A general sentiment regarding his campus presence: I don't mind the once a month visit from a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't mind the once a month political text, or even the weekly emails. UD takes time to make our campus a welcoming and inviting place for all students but KBJ is a direct affront to what the university strives for.
The whole "freedom of religion" as "freedom from religion" idea.
The day a consistently overzealous rabbi yells at me for the pulled pork sandwiches I've eaten in my life is the day I care 1 percent less about KBJ.
Have you ever confronted him? Would you?
I've never confronted him, no. I would if he tried to personally attack me or a friend of mine, though.
Do you ever pass by and think he's made a compelling point or agree with him about something?
Oh absolutely not. The most compelling thing he's ever said is "that's all for today, bye."
So you said that you're not really religious anymore, but you used to be. Has he ever made you feel embarrassed to be Christian in the past? Now does his presence make you see religious people differently and/or further swayed you to not participate?
Well even during the short time I considered myself religious I never went to church, I just read the Bible. When I regularly attended church last year, I still didn't consider myself religious or swayed. In fact, the more I participated, the more disillusioned I became. Similarly with KBJ, the more I've heard from him, the less I hear anything resembling Christ's message. At least the message I understand. So short answer, yes, he's a plague on Christianity.
Like most things, though, it's unfair to judge all Christians based on the words of this one man. We all know Westboro Baptist Church doesn't speak for all Christians. We also know every time they do speak, we wish we hadn't heard it, but they're an entirely different story.
Stephen Faulkenberry: Sophomore, Biomedical Engineering Major
Do you consider yourself religious in any capacity?
No, I’m agnostic.
Describe your experience with Kirkbride Jesus.
I see him regularly preaching outside, stopped to briefly listen before.
How does what he says make you feel?
Mostly it makes me feel like he’s being arrogant and he thinks he knows better than me.
It doesn’t bother me or enrage me, but he seems to think he knows better than me.
Do you believe in evangelization? Does it work? Should people do it?
It works extremely rarely, but it probably doesn’t work for KBJ.
Does any one incident stand out in your mind?
He always yells, “You’re going to hell,” which makes me feel not anger, but humor.
It is funny to think that he believes he can judge me without knowing me.
Have you ever confronted him? Would you?
I have considered it, I would probably listen to what he had to say and then think of some logical way to oppose him. I don’t think I’d ever get heated but I’d civilly argue or debate with him.
Do you agree with him about anything?
Yes sometimes I have thought, “You know what, that’s a fair point. I might not agree with the vast majority of what you say, but you know what, that’s a fair point, you’re right.”
Has he changed how you view religion or religious people on campus?
He has strengthened my resolve in the fact that organized religion is not for me.
If there is a God, how is there one right way to know what the hell he wants? And who are you to tell me that I’m wrong? People like KBJ reinforce that statement in my mind.
Dante Marcelle: Sophomore, Human Services Major
Do you consider yourself religious in any capacity?
No, I’m agnostic.
Describe your experience with Kirkbride Jesus.
I walked by him a lot last year, but I listened only sometimes. I pay the most attention when there are posters.
How does what he says make you feel?
It doesn’t make me happy at all but it doesn’t affect me to the point where I am sad because I am mostly confused when he speaks. I keep wondering why he does this and why he is here.
Do you believe in evangelization? Does it work? Should people do it?
It can work in certain situations, but his version does not work at all.
Does any one incident stand out in your mind?
When he’s in front of Caesar Rodney! He’s Kirkbride Jesus not Rodney Jesus!
Have you ever confronted him? Would you?
No.
Do you agree with him about anything?
Never!
Has he changed how you view religion or religious people on campus?
He’s maybe made me more confident in my decision to not be religious, but not a lot.
